some (mostly fannish) tidbits.

[wisdomeagle]

1. am typing up the headers for ficlets, and one of them, the one where the whole crew of Serenity gets married? I'm typing, "Grouping: Mal/Zoe/Kaylee/Fre--" wait a second. Fred's not in this fic! I am so pathetic, I am.

2. Archiving drabbles. Do they get full headers? Cos, sometimes? That would make the header longer than the fic. Should each drabble get its own page, or should they be archived in batches? Many of my drabbles come in batches, but many don't. I guess they should be arranged by fandom/pairing, maybe? Stupid frelling work.

3. due South. I think by virtue of watching S1, and doing so slowly, savoring it, I'm going to find myself 180 degrees from the rest of fandom re: Rays, amn't I?

4. *waves to new friends "Library Science" earned me*

5. Re: the BSC. Something that annoys me is the implication (or more like the anvil!characterization) that Kristy (and Mary Anne) are "baby-ish" "immature" and "less grown up" because they don't care about boys or clothes. I mean, frankly, you don't get much more mature than Kristy at that age. She's responsible, she's smart, she's an organizer and a leader, she's very good with people, and so what if she wears jeans and a turtle neck everyday? That doesn't make her less mature.

Now. I think that Ann and possibly even her staff realize this. I think that they understand that their narrators are biased and don't understand what true maturity means. Which is okay. And I'm torn. Because on the one hand, we have biased narrators, which is A+, stylistically. On the other hand, we have books intended for kids my sister's age and younger, who aren't necessarily sensitive to the complexity of narrative bias, and are reading these things voraciously and getting the message pounded home, "If you don't care about how you look, you are babyish and immature. If you aren't interested in boys, you will be soon enough, when you grow up a little more."

I'm so torn! Because authorial freedom is obviously very important and Ann should write whatever she damn well wants to write without worrying about the precious egos of pre-teen girls -- although I wonder if there are special... not rules, but standards? for kid!lit. On the other hand? The BSC certainly started as a labor of love, but past a certain point, it wasn't even Ann any more. I think when your staff is ghost-writing your best-selling series, the question of artistic integrity is sort of a moot point. (Now, I don't begrudge Ann her ghost-writers. I'm just saying that perhaps it changes the context of the discussion a bit.

I guess this is something that was metafandomed fairly recently, about authorial responsibility? But I feel that because it's a kids' series, perhaps there should be different standards? But that doesn't seem fair to me either! And the fact that there's a moral in every book and it's not exactly subtle... ack! Someone help me resolve this dilemma.

Comments

[gloss]

I'm going to find myself 180 degrees from the rest of fandom re: Rays, amn't I?
The idea that Kowalski/CKR rules the fandom is...not so true. The character's amazing, but there's definitely a hell of a lot of Vecchio love. In my heart, anyway. ;)

[wisdomeagle]

It's good to hear. *relieved* (And heck, I'll probably love Kowalski too, if I ever get my hands on the later seasons.)

And since when does gloss != fandom? :p

[gloss]

if I ever get my hands on the later seasons
Can you wait a bit until I have some spare cash for mailing? I'd be happy to burn the eps I have and send them to you. That's how I got them and spreading the fannish love is a very good thing.

since when does gloss != fandom?
*takes the Fifth, resists linking* :D

re:BSC, about which I know veryvery little, I always get Ann M. Martin mixed up with Ann Bannon. Heh.

[wisdomeagle]

Oooh. 'Tis tempting. :)

since when does gloss != fandom?
*takes the Fifth, resists linking* :D

Lala. *snerk*

re:BSC, about which I know veryvery little, I always get Ann M. Martin mixed up with Ann Bannon. Heh.

Eep! Shall be having bad thoughts about Ann M. Martin's s00per sekrit second career now. :p

[mylittleredgirl.livejournal.com]

And yet, I'd think that just as many girls idolize Kristy and Mary-Anne as any of the others, so perhaps it's not that damaging. (I don't actually remember which one I idolized, though I don't think it was them -- though I think Kristy influenced my mad organizational ski11z considerably, which is funny. I think it was Stacey or Dawn, but I really don't remember. Wish I had a few on-hand to re-read!)

Or.... well, actually, perhaps it's very damaging, because as I think about it I realize that all the arguments I was about to make ("but life IS that way at age 13" "that IS what you're supposed to be into...") mean I was completely taken in.

Heh. I wonder if growing up would've been a lot less painful if I hadn't bought into the Kiss Boys AND LIKE IT From Age 13 If You Want To Be Mature And Normal mentality. HRM. *thinks about things*

[wisdomeagle]

Hmm! *glad to make you think thinky thoughts*

What I find most amusing is that in my mind, Kristy's outfits are still okay -- jeans and a t-shirt won't get too many funny looks -- but Stacey's and Claudia's height-of-fashion ensembles would probably be totally out of style now. Fashion is fleeting, jeans are timeless. :p

I think I idolized Claudia for her fashion sense when I was in 2nd grade, but I totally loved all of them. I identified most with Mary Anne -- hence my grr-response to the implication that she's immature because she's not interested in the same things Stacey and Claudia are.

I think? I'm probably overthinking this.

[mylittleredgirl.livejournal.com]

No! You? Overthinking BSC? ;)

I didn't idolize Claudia so much because she was all Messy Artist Type, and my father is a Messy Artist Type, and I was DETERMINED to be a Neat Artist Type even at age 8 ;).

I think I liked boy-crazy, less responsible characters to be contrarian. I was big into the Sweet Valley Twins and my mother kept having to take the way because I'd start dressing and mouthing off and stop doing my homework in order to Be Like Jessica when I was in grade 2.

To be honest, I'm not sure the Height Of Fashion ensembles were in-style then.

[noelia-g.livejournal.com]

You mean there are fics out there without Fred in them? Unthinkable! ;)

Archiving drabbles... I think batches should go together. It's kinda easier to read them without much clicking.
But yeah, fandom/pairing is the best way to go, methinks.

[wisdomeagle]

I have heard there is such a thing as a Fredless fic, but I wouldn't want to meet it! :p

Hmmm. Batches together makes sense, same fandom/pairings together also makes sense... one-to-a-page makes some sense to me too, though it also seems kind of silly given that they're only 100 words. Grr. I think I might need to make another poll.

[noelia-g.livejournal.com]

Or just throw *all* drabbles into one page, randomnly, not caring about the silly things like fandoms or pairings or characters...
Easy, no trouble, fun.
Dadaism is a way to go *nod*
;)

[cadence-k.livejournal.com]

My memory of BSC is very limited, which is weird because I read SO MANY of them when I was younger. Anyway, all I remember is loving Kristy and Claudia. I wanted to be Kristy because she was all In Charge and smart. I wanted to be friends with Claudia because she was so different than anyone I knew.

I don't remember anything else about any of the other characters, except sometimes being annoyed by Logan. I was not a Logan/Mary Anne shipper. In fact, I probably wanted Mary Anne and Kristy to hook up, even then :)

So... yeah. I have nothing to add except for the fact that I admire Ann for including such a range of characters. I have no problem with books, even (or especially) children's books, dealing with stereotypes as long as they show both sides. Do Kristy or Mary Anne ever tell the others that just because they don't care about fashion doesn't mean that they aren't as mature as them? Or maybe their mature actions speak for themselves?

Does that make sense? That maybe the writers are showing both sides by saying, "Yes, there is this stereotype that you have to dress up like an adult to be cool but Kristy and Mary Anne don't do that and they're cool too. You decide what you think about that."

Okay, I'm shutting up now.

[wisdomeagle]

*grin* Excellent thoughts!

I have nothing to add except for the fact that I admire Ann for including such a range of characters.

Yep. And I do love Ann M. Martin, get thee not wrong. Even though she's sometimes very anvily with the diversity of her cast (especially when it comes to family types), it is still admirable.

Do Kristy or Mary Anne ever tell the others that just because they don't care about fashion doesn't mean that they aren't as mature as them? Or maybe their mature actions speak for themselves?

NO! And that's what's causing me grrr at the moment. In one of the books I reread recently, I think perhaps Kristy and the Secret of Susan, Kristy says (remember, the books are in first person, so this is just Kristy speaking to the audience.) "Even though Claudia and Stacey are the same age as me, I somtimes feel younger than them because I'm not interested in boys or clothes yet." (emphasis mine, and I'm paraphrasing.) That caused me great annoyance, because... that's all we ever get, from Kristy or the other characters. She seems younger, she seems less mature, she doesn't feel as old as them. And while I understand that at that age, it can be frustrating to have divergent interests and to blame yourself for your perceived immaturity or inadequacy, I think the lack of a differing viewpoint, someone saying, "You know, Kristy, you're actually very adult and grown-up; just look at the business you run!" is what's bothering me.

Maybe there actually are more moments like that; I think that K and MA's parents think of them as mature and responsible (and MA's journey to maturity and how she negotiates that with her father is actually one of the arcs of the series)... but they aren't first person narrators so I wonder if kids would get that that's actually the case. I don't know!

Thanks for joining the discussion. :)

[cadence-k.livejournal.com]

I think the lack of a differing viewpoint, someone saying, "You know, Kristy, you're actually very adult and grown-up; just look at the business you run!" is what's bothering me. Then I grr with you!

Grrr!

[malnpudl.livejournal.com]

As for dS, there are many of us who dearly love both Rays. As for myself, I want to take Ray Vecchio home with me and fuck his brains out and keep him forever; I want Ray Kowalski to take Fraser home and fuck his brains out and keep him forever. *g*

And when the time comes for S3/S4, if you haven't got another supplier by then, my lending library will be open. :-)

[jennixen.livejournal.com]

Agreed! I love both Rays too...but I love Diefenbaker the most. :)
Oh and that geeky Canadian whose name I can't remember...

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

I hate having lots of drabbles all on one page with # tags for navigation because it's so easy to lose your place. Yes sometimes the header is longer than the fic, but I think that's totally okay (and I think people usually just skim headers anyway). If the drabbles are a series, then they should be on a single page all together because they're basically a single fic, but unrelated drabbles should each have their own page.

And I know nothing about due South, but I know my friend lilithchilde is totally a Fraser/Vecchio fan.

[melwil.livejournal.com]

Another interesting thing to look at in the BSC is how Mallory views herself. She often refers to herself as 'feeling babyish' next to the others - even Mary Anne and Kristy, although the girls later say that Mallory and Jessi are very mature for their age (up in the +100 books). Also, although she has a good friendship with Ben Hobart, she's happy for it to not turn into the Mary Anne/Logan type relationship

Claudia's outfits always took me forever to work out because the clothing names were different to ours in Australia

[wisdomeagle]

That's a really good point about Mal -- I want to write up some more coherent thoughts about defining maturity in the BSC -- I mena, for Jessi and Mal, it's like, getting your ears pierced = grown-up. Which is perfectly valid for 11-year-olds, but I really wish there were some like, alternate definitions of maturity? I think Mary Anne probably comes closest, though even with her, maturity is often linked to the kinds of clothes she wears and the fact that she has a boyfriend.

[sangerin.livejournal.com]

Dangit - you always have such good thinkythoughts that I want to respond to, only I never have time in the mornings, and then when I get home I forget. ~sigh~ Will try to remember this time around.