questions: ficathon? pairing warnings?

[wisdomeagle]

dear flist,
Note how I'm not sleeping. Meg's fic (wonderful as predicted) got me thinking about a weird Sheppard/McKay/Weir triangle, and then I decided there should probably be an OT3+ ficathon in this fandom (this fandom being the Gateverse.) Anyone up for it? (also asked in sg1_beyond_otp)

Also have a question about labeling stories, especially re: pairings. I understand that it's basically a fan convention, and that the reason we warn for pairings (or label pairings) is so people can a) find what they're looking for and b) avoid what they're not looking for. Now, in the SG-1 fandom, there's this Thing about Jack/Sam, and it's basically that you need to warn if they look at each other funny because lots of slashers really don't like getting Jack/Sam in their slash. So when I bounced into fandom, I promptly warned for even the vaguest glimmerings of het anywhere in my fic even though the feelings are canon. In the Jossverse, I'd probably feel vaguely ridiculous warning for canon pairings unless they were the featured pairing in a piece.

But what counts as a canon pairing? And when is a pairing a part of the fic? Let's look at some of the more problematic pairing labels in my recent fics...

Sort of Jack/Daniel, sort of Jack/Sam, sort of gen. (I really don't know how else to label this. There's subtext for both pairings, and it's left intentionally ambiguous. Er?)

McKay/Weir + Sheppard/Teyla (Pretty straight-forward, except some Shep/Ford subtext also crept in.)

Willow/Giles (There's also Buffy/Riley and Xander/Anya in this, but they're off-screen and established and canon, so I didn't mention them)

Daniel/Weir. (Intentional Jack/Daniel and McKay/Weir subtext crept in. I apologized for it, but the recipient didn't mind. Still, I feel bad about the subtext being there and not labeled.)

All of the above? Mostly het, some slash, and heck, even some blink-and-you-miss-it femslash. (A Five Things fic. I didn't want to spoil it, so I just went with the lazy route.)

Willow/Tara, with just the faintest hints of Willow/Giles and Tara/Giles in the oh-so-unresolved sexual tension way. (As I noted in my recent commentary on this fic, the Giles/Tara subtext, which was the whole point of writing the fic, seems to exist mostly in my head.)

Giles/Willow unrequited, Willow/Tara, Ethan/Giles, and inexplicable Anya/Oz in a dream sequence. (My first Buffy fic. Hee. It was faithfully written up in sd_herald [now su_herald] as Giles/Willow, Willow/Tara, Ethan/Giles, and Anya/Oz. If I were warning for this now, I'd definitely leave off the Anya/Oz [it's in a dream and isn't important at all] and probably the Willow/Tara. I'd be confused about the Giles/Ethan, though. Are we allowed to just assume everyone else assumes there's Giles/Ethan backstory? Doesn't everyone else assume there's Giles/Ethan backstory? How central to the plot does it have to be that one needs to/ought to mention it?)

And finally, Jack/Kinsey (and others, but if you get past that, I'm sure you won't mind.) (The "others" are actually pretty textual, though still UST. I wish I could just label all my fics like this.)


Any thoughts? What pairings do you want to see warned for? All that are textual? All that are subtextual? Only non-canonical ones? (How do you define non-canonical?) Only if they're onscreen? Only if they're resolved? I'm so confused! (As an anti-spoiler person, I tend to want to label/warn as little as possible, but on the other hand, as a passive aggressive person, I don't want to piss anyone off.) Thoughts, anyone? Especially Jossverse people? [I'm trying to figure out how to list the pairing(s) for my Ethan ficathon fic, so this is not an academic question.]

Comments

[azarsuerte.livejournal.com]

Meg's fic (wonderful as predicted) got me thinking about a weird Sheppard/McKay/Weir triangle, and then I decided there should probably be an OT3+ ficathon in this fandom (this fandom being the Gateverse.) Anyone up for it? (also asked in sg1_beyond_otp)

I'd be interested! There's probably only one OT3 I could write or would want to read, but if that wouldn't be a problem... ;-)

Also, if you do decide to do it, don't forget to pimp it over at atlantis_ot3 too. :-D

[wisdomeagle]

Nifty. Since McKay/Sheppard/Weir is pretty popular, I suspect you'd be fine. I didn't know the 'lantis comm existed; thanks for letting me know! :)

[blueswan9.livejournal.com]

Warning: Written pre-coffee by someone who has been chided for not warning about slash or RPS when I recc'd a story. (The stories were appropriately labelled by the authors.)

FWIW from someone who isn't a big labeller, I think only the main pairings are necessary. I like to go into a story without knowing the end clean. For example, if it's a darkfic with character death and non-con sex, a darkfic/non-con warning is welcome but telling me a character dies in a darkfic is a bit redundant. Warn for subtext? Mais non! The Gunn/Wes story karabair wrote for the happy Wes ficathon was a friendship fic with slashy subtext. It was a surprise and I'd have been upset if I'd been warned in advance.

[wisdomeagle]

:) Thanks for the input. I'm kind of with you, but then my fear of spoilers overcomes my fear of anything else, including death, slash, RPS, het, and Kennedy. So I tend to skip warnings till the end anyhow.

Otoh, some kind of label is useful for figuring out what kind of fic it is... I can't read everything I see; I'd go nuts. Yeah. Whee. *not only pre-coffee, but running on no sleep whatsoever*

:p

[blueswan9.livejournal.com]

Ah, we are both anti-spoilers. It might be interesting to see if the non-labellers turn out to be non-spoilery versus those who seek out spoilers.

Huh? Hopefully you get the drift here. I'm going for more coffee. :)

[rosewildeirish.livejournal.com]

Since some folks won't read (or dislike to read) a story without a clear idea of who's in it, I tend to "warn" or list every pairing in the story. Though I don't generally layer too many in there.

If the pairing is a surprise to the story, I might not list it, in which case those who don't care for it just have to cope. Or not read, omg.

[wisdomeagle]

If the pairing is a surprise to the story, I might not list it, in which case those who don't care for it just have to cope. Or not read, omg.

Hee. See, the thing is, there's some stuff that's easy to label, right, because it's sort of classic romance fic and follows a certain pattern and character a and character b get together, no problem.

But then there's fic that just doesn't follow that pattern... and I feel like a list of the pairings would mislead people, because they aren't all having sex in the fic, they're just sort of... USTing over each other, very obscurely. It's a thing.

*is confused OMG!*

[sangerin.livejournal.com]

I am, as you know, spoiler-phobic when it comes to certain shows. With Buffy and Angel I just gave up trying, but I generally try to avoid spoilers. (Not easy when you live in Australia and the Networks seem to have no concept of the internet whatsoever! Argh!)

Anyway - despite being spoiler-phobic, I want the main paring noted, definitely. I wouldn't mind other pairings noted if they're obvious... I've been trawling for Firefly fic this past weekend, and the number of times I've had to scrub my brain because I've run into Jayne-ships? Eewww! I want to be able to avoid Jayne fics! Especially Jayne-shipping fics.

[wisdomeagle]

Aww. Poor Sangerin, all traumatized-like over Jayne!

In the uh, one FF fic I wrote, which was the BtVS crossover, I labeled it "Kaylee/Simon" because that was the main pairing at stake, and titled in "Nine Travlers Who Never Were Lost" which I hope keyed people in that it was at least sort of an ensemble piece, and suspect I put many people off it because Kaylee/Simon? Not a popular 'ship.

Ah well. 'Tis life.

(and omg. Spoilers=evil and IMPOSSIBLE to avoid. Because as soon as it's aired one place, everyone in the entire world has seen it. Clearly.)

[jedi-penguin.livejournal.com]

I'm not an equal opportunity fan. For every fandom I follow, there are one or several characters I don't like and have no desire to read about. So yes, I do like to know who is in a fic and that is the only reason why I like to know the pairing. If the summary gives me that info, then I don't need the pairing and am just as happy to be surprised. That said, I never read fics with vague summaries (such as, "A summer day over the Hellmouth") that don't have pairings listed; I would rather miss a terrific Giles story than be drawn into something featuring a character that I hate.

[wisdomeagle]

See, I do get that, since I'm not an equal-opportunity fan either, and do tend to choose on the basis of the characters/pairings involved. (Although now, I more read from recs and/or the flist rather than by ppairing.) But I do see your point, and having the main pairing listed makes sense to me nine times out of ten. It's when I begin to write things like "Pairings: Willow/Tara but Willow also has a crush on Giles, who has history with Ethan and some original characters of both genders, Riley is with Buffy but having sex with Graham and Forrestt on the weekends, and Xander and Anya are together but Xander has disturbingly sexual dreams about Spike and Giles on alternate Tuesdays" that I wonder why I can't just say, "Pairings: canon with others implied." Eh. *apologizes for rambling and is tired and frustrated omg with headers*

[mosca.livejournal.com]

I actually had a heated discussion (as in, "We're not fighting, we're expressing ourselves! Loudly!") with a fellow Firefly fan about six months ago about this very conundrum. She'd written a story and labeled it as gen. The story not only featured Mal/Inara, but featured it in a much more unambiguously positive way than canon did-- a fact that readers other than me pointed out, and that the writer agreed was true. But, the writer said, it's a canon pairing and they don't have sex. But, said I, some of us think that Mal and Inara are astonishingly toxic and destructive when placed in close proximity. Therefore, some readers have difficulty believing in happy Mal/Inara, whether or not there's any fucking going on. The thing is, I wouldn't have skipped the story if she'd labeled it with the pairing. I would have, in fact, enjoyed it more, because I would have gone into it thinking, "Okay, this is a good writer who interprets that relationship in a different way than I do." Because the pairing wasn't labeled, I wasn't prepared to suspend my belief. I got frustrated with the expectation that her reading of the pairing didn't need to be justified in the narrative or noted in the headers. It seemed like she thought her interpretation was "right" or "canon," when (in my opinion) it really wasn't.

The moral of this story: note all important pairings in your headers. Even if the pairing is canon; even if the story is gen, save for a little subtext or interpretation. My experience is, it'll probably win you more readers.

[wisdomeagle]

Huh. I see your point; in the Gateverse we have regular-as-clockwork wank over "gen" fic that's actually sekritly Jack/Daniel and "gen" fic that's sekritly Jack/Sam. For many slashers, if Jack and Sam look at each other funny it should be labeled Jack/Sam and disclaimed out the wazoo for the evil, evil het, and for hetshippers, if Jack so much as says a kind word to Daniel, it's "OMG THE EVIL SLASH" and should be labeled as such.

It's a thing.

note all important pairings in your headers. Even if the pairing is canon; even if the story is gen, save for a little subtext or interpretation.

I like this advice, but suspect that given the amount of subtext I've taken to pouring into my fic, the pairing label would be as long as the fic itself. Hmm.

Thanks for the input!

[karendreamer.livejournal.com]

Whew, a lot of questions. I'll try to keep my answers short.

I don't believe in canon pairings for the most part (Buffy being an exception). My feeling is that in most shows pairings only belong in fic.

I think that if there is obvious relationship or pre-relationship conversation or touching, the pairing should be noted. By this I mean longing meaningful looks, tingling when hands touch, thoughts questioning feelings for another, and such things in stronger tones.

While I have favorite pairings, I think OT is a very individual choice (again, for the most part). I definitely enjoy OT3 (while not necessarily being OT, just the three part). One of my favorites is Scully/Mulder/Skinner. That is probably the closes to OT3 I get.

I like to read a variety of pairings, the important part being that they are well written and in character. In character being very important. I recently stopped in the middle of a fic because Sheppard referred to Weir as 'Liz' when talking to subordinates. That is definitely a crash and burn point for me.

These are my opinions, and I'm sure others wildly disagree. And I am willing to read new ideas and pairings at least once (yes, I've read a Jack/Kinsey, not sure I ever will again).

[wisdomeagle]

By this I mean longing meaningful looks, tingling when hands touch, thoughts questioning feelings for another,

Hmmm. I'm trying to think of exactly what it is that I'm calling subtext. It's stuff like where, a character clearly cares about another, and there might be looks or touches, but they aren't defined as sexual, or really mentioned... my goal is to evoke the canon sort of subtext, stuff that shippers can say "ohh, they're so doing it!" and those who don't ship them can ignore it.

Thanks for commenting. :D

[zulu]

I'm another member of the "will ship anything that moves" school of thought, so surprise pairings like your Anya/Oz wouldn't faze me at all. I try to get away with the fewest labels possible. I want my character deaths to be a surprise. Like, when I wrote a Buffy/Faith fic with a bit of Buffy/Riley in it, I didn't warn for het, because Buffy/Riley was canon at that point. Sometimes you just have to put up with your readers saying "EW." Along these lines, I work hard at my summaries; for me, a summary can make or break a story. I can cover a lot of labelling/warning flaws by having a good summary, I think. In other news, Ethan/Giles is CLEARLY backstory! Of course! (Ahem. Snicker.)

[wisdomeagle]

*snerk* I agree with you, but I think we're in the minority, and since I'm writing for a larger audiance, well, warning is the nice!

I mean, to take "Faith Healing" as an example (since it's the only piece of yours I'm familiar with. *shame*). You labeled it "Faith/Tara" because it was. You didn't mention the Buffy/Tara, and when I got to it, I was a bit fazed, but then, it was backstory and basically a paragraph long, and so dude, it didn't bother me.

But then, I have this thing, where if something squicks me hard enough, I'll stop reading. And few things squick me that hard.

And but also: canon doesn't warn for crack pairings, does it?

Thanks for commenting.

(Giles/Ethan OTP!)

[zulu]

See, I didn't even think of that! I never for a minute remembered that I should possibly warn for Buffy/Tara! I guess that's because my mindset comes from being a non-fic writer first. When you write fiction you don't warn anyone what's going to happen in your story! And no one would possibly expect you to. Pairings make things easier to search for in archives, and sometimes I get a jones for a specific pairing and go looking for it. But weird pairings, or unconventional ones, aren't going to turn me away. My squicks are pretty minor, like yours, I guess. Still, I try to appease fandom when it comes right down to it, I think. After all, who else is gonna shoot me up with the bad crack of feedback if I don't?

[dodyskin.livejournal.com]

Ack, I don't understand the whole warning thing. It seems silly to me, but it doesn't hurt me any to acquiesce and it seems important to some people so... whatever.

I warn for everything on the main page of my site. Under each story title I give a vague rating (which also seems mad to me), list the main characters in the story, and slap a slash between any characters that bump anything sensitive.

I don't require warnings as a reader. The only warning I want to see is one for badfic, which is never going to happen.

[wisdomeagle]

*g* Ah, easy-going fans. What a rare breed.

(I don't really understand the warning thing either, but it makes fandom happy, so I go with it.)