Loved. One of my pet peeves about s5 after Cordelia's death is the lack of mourning for Cordelia. Esp in contrast to the mourning for Fred, but. I really like Fred so I try not to dwell.
Ditto.
I think Groo-bits were Cordelia. He thinks she's a princess, he's hot and he's devoted to her. (snip). I sometimes wonder if Jasmine was manipulating Cordelia's visions as well. Not all along, but from birthday on. Thus, nothing about Connor getting kidnapped.
Well, I think the Groo-bits are totally ic for Cordy, but then, I wonder if the absolute intensity of her need to sleep with him -- while retaining the visions -- it's like she's got a very, very clear agenda and it's totally out of the blue -- as is Groo's convenient return at just the wrong time.
I wonder about Cordy's visions as well, but I really want to analyze the whole idea of visions in the Jossverse more fully and look at Slayer dreams, Doyle/Cordy, and Dru as examples. I'm operating on the tentative hypothesis that the visions aren't really sent per se but that certain people are in tune with the future, with a tendancy towards picking up on serious supernatural stuff that's going on. Perhaps the Powers (as well as Jasmine and W+H) are capable of using that capacity to their own end. And, of course, manipulating visions.
I wonder if Cordy didn't sense Connor's kidnapping since she was out of town? Maybe there's something about physical proximity.
I tend to think that Jasmine had to do a lot of planning on the fly - no matter what Skip says (hello, unreliable narrator!), there were always snags. And she was working through Cordelia and other small pushes she could make, you know?
Definate point -- it certainly feels like Jasmine made up her plan as she went along, but it seems like such a waste -- she had some really good ideas, she just... failed to implement them properly. With a little more planning and a little more patience, she could have pulled it off.
[random theory: she didn't have the time to be patient because something big was looming that threatened all of humanity, and she needed to stop it right then. The First?]
In re: Wesley, Skip does point to Wesley and Lilah's romance as something Jasmine 'pushed along' which means Wesley had a part to play.
That's one of those things I think Skip is lying about, but I do think Jasmine wanted Wesley out of the picture and did her best to make that happen. I hardly think the Lilah-specific bits were all her though. (Random sidenote: it's from the Weslah 'shippers [among others] that we get the whole "Angel/Cordy was totally made up by Jasmine!" thing when it's more canon that the whole Wes/Lilah thing was made up b Jasmine.)
As to poor podCordy - it's hard to say exactly what Jasmine exact plan was since it all got so cocked up. Maybe she wanted permanent midnight and Angelus and the Beast so her rising would be a deliverance? She and Connor and the remaining AI gang kill all the beasties and demons who are all in one place and that gives her even more strength to take everyone and a heroine angle.
Ohh, innnteresting idea. I have never heard a truly satisfactory explanation of Cordy's plan, but that's an interesting thought: she wanted to play the hero.
Jasmine was right to fear Angel, I suppose, but... I don't know. She killed W+H, killed Lilah, got Angelus summoned and then released... I don't know. It's all confusing. Hence, popular Angel opinion number 5: the Jasmine arc is confusing. :p
One of the things I do like about a closed canon, as much as I hate that Angel and Buffy are no more, is that we get to speculate as much as we want!
*Very* true. And now that I've seen all of canon, I don't need to fear spoilers anymore!
Oh, and in the commentary for Spin the Bottle, Joss Whedon comments that the reason Cordelia is blurry as she runs away is that it's the last time we see the real Cordelia. She's gone, there - which is his POV. I think the show allows more ambiguity.
Ah. Yep, show is def. more ambiguous. I think the meta and commentaries can help us, but ultimately, they're only gray canon and only what's actually on the show is canon. Besides, if we had all the answers, what would be have to talk about?
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Ditto.
I think Groo-bits were Cordelia. He thinks she's a princess, he's hot and he's devoted to her. (snip). I sometimes wonder if Jasmine was manipulating Cordelia's visions as well. Not all along, but from birthday on. Thus, nothing about Connor getting kidnapped.
Well, I think the Groo-bits are totally ic for Cordy, but then, I wonder if the absolute intensity of her need to sleep with him -- while retaining the visions -- it's like she's got a very, very clear agenda and it's totally out of the blue -- as is Groo's convenient return at just the wrong time.
I wonder about Cordy's visions as well, but I really want to analyze the whole idea of visions in the Jossverse more fully and look at Slayer dreams, Doyle/Cordy, and Dru as examples. I'm operating on the tentative hypothesis that the visions aren't really sent per se but that certain people are in tune with the future, with a tendancy towards picking up on serious supernatural stuff that's going on. Perhaps the Powers (as well as Jasmine and W+H) are capable of using that capacity to their own end. And, of course, manipulating visions.
I wonder if Cordy didn't sense Connor's kidnapping since she was out of town? Maybe there's something about physical proximity.
I tend to think that Jasmine had to do a lot of planning on the fly - no matter what Skip says (hello, unreliable narrator!), there were always snags. And she was working through Cordelia and other small pushes she could make, you know?
Definate point -- it certainly feels like Jasmine made up her plan as she went along, but it seems like such a waste -- she had some really good ideas, she just... failed to implement them properly. With a little more planning and a little more patience, she could have pulled it off.
[random theory: she didn't have the time to be patient because something big was looming that threatened all of humanity, and she needed to stop it right then. The First?]
In re: Wesley, Skip does point to Wesley and Lilah's romance as something Jasmine 'pushed along' which means Wesley had a part to play.
That's one of those things I think Skip is lying about, but I do think Jasmine wanted Wesley out of the picture and did her best to make that happen. I hardly think the Lilah-specific bits were all her though. (Random sidenote: it's from the Weslah 'shippers [among others] that we get the whole "Angel/Cordy was totally made up by Jasmine!" thing when it's more canon that the whole Wes/Lilah thing was made up b Jasmine.)
As to poor podCordy - it's hard to say exactly what Jasmine exact plan was since it all got so cocked up. Maybe she wanted permanent midnight and Angelus and the Beast so her rising would be a deliverance? She and Connor and the remaining AI gang kill all the beasties and demons who are all in one place and that gives her even more strength to take everyone and a heroine angle.
Ohh, innnteresting idea. I have never heard a truly satisfactory explanation of Cordy's plan, but that's an interesting thought: she wanted to play the hero.
Jasmine was right to fear Angel, I suppose, but... I don't know. She killed W+H, killed Lilah, got Angelus summoned and then released... I don't know. It's all confusing. Hence, popular Angel opinion number 5: the Jasmine arc is confusing. :p
One of the things I do like about a closed canon, as much as I hate that Angel and Buffy are no more, is that we get to speculate as much as we want!
*Very* true. And now that I've seen all of canon, I don't need to fear spoilers anymore!
Oh, and in the commentary for Spin the Bottle, Joss Whedon comments that the reason Cordelia is blurry as she runs away is that it's the last time we see the real Cordelia. She's gone, there - which is his POV. I think the show allows more ambiguity.
Ah. Yep, show is def. more ambiguous. I think the meta and commentaries can help us, but ultimately, they're only gray canon and only what's actually on the show is canon. Besides, if we had all the answers, what would be have to talk about?